Nice story; makes me smile. Can't quite put my finger on why I like it so much. You've probably inspired me to try being a little more unreasonable.

Hi Sebastian, love your blog. Kind of surprised though you seem to miss some negotiation skills.
First: I understand how one can get into that mindset of not wanting to pay more than a price one has decided to be final - been there enough times. But I've also been running around the store later trying for hours to find that one shop where they had this one item which I didn't buy the first time because of 10 RMB/50 BHT.
So I think one has to always take into account one's time and how it could be better spent then coming back later or negotiating forever in the first place. By being in China, buying from those shops and having some rough idea about how much the price ought to be, one will get a good bargain already compared to say buying a similar item back home - so you're already saving money - arguing about 10 RMB and than not buying is wasting that money again.
That said: Just don't quote you're final offer as such in the first place, but tell them 40 is final and than fall back to 50. (You're probably doing that already as this is very basic stuff, but it seems to me you have to take it up a notch.) Also: WALK AWAY!
If I didn't walk away and they didn't come running after me to tell me "Ok 50 RMB", I haven't been getting their last price. And if they don't come running, seems this really was their last price which means I can think about that (without them hassling me) and come back a few minutes later to fold in.
Hope that has been of some help. Stay hungry. Stay foolish.

"And so I’ve got a new tie. Sure, setting hard limits and holding them leaves you feeling like you walked away stupidly at times, but it also means you get you typically do get your way when you have a very reasonable request or demand."

I think you were "fortunate" to meet a saleslady like her. Regarding their rules about selling the tie with a particular shirt, it is their job to follow the rules. But, I don't agree what she did in the end, which is to encourage you to just take the tie freely.

Betty D. Branch

She made a huge sale with high margins and no discounting - probably the reason they couldn't sell the tie solo is it didn't have an SKU, but I think she absolutely did the right thing to close the sale.

Frank, I 100% agree about the time thing, but at some point you do have to have limits or you're always going to take the worst deal that's viable for you in anything. Maybe with smaller things it's better to just move faster and be done with it, you're probably right.

About walking away, yeah, did so a few times. In that particular case, they'd have sold to someone Chinese for 30 RMB and happily made the profit. It was an ego/will/face thing at that point. The problem with drastically overpaying in every transaction as a foreigner is you set the example that foreigners will cave consistently and overpay what locals pay - occasionally not doing a transaction over a small difference shows that not everyone from the West can be ground to nothing, which is good for travelers in general.

I totally agree on how overpaying large sums (like 5-10x the local prize) on a regular basis is bad for other travelers as well as for the honest shopkeepers - as you're also pointing out in another post.

On the other hand I've seen this phenomenon of always wanting to pay lowest price in many other people as well as myself growing to ridiculous heights. One time we were waiting for hours in the middle of nowhere in Laos for a busride and when we got one my companion decided not to take it as the busdriver inisted on 15 Kip instead of 13 or s.th like that. I have similar stories of wandering around Beijing for hours instead of taking a cab. These things can be fun too of course, but as I said sometimes one might want to take the value of ones time into account.

I can absolutely relate to what you're saying about how a chinese person would have gotten the 30 RMB prize and that would just seem unfair. One realization I had at one point though was that "Yes they might get it for 30 - yet if that chinese person could afford it maybe they would pay 50 too - Prize is not an absolute but a status thing."
I'm not sure if this holds true for China but at least in Thailand if people have the money they will not negotiate too hard and gladly pay a little more than the people that can't afford too. Kinda like tipping. Whereas in Europe you buy the bigger and more expensive toy to show your status - over there you might as well buy the same as everybody else but pay/tip generously as everybody will know that YOU KNOW that the prize could be lower. Of course being a foreigner that's difficult as they don't expect you to know about reasonable prizes at all.
But say a poor local will get the item for 30 after telling the shopkeeper about his 7 starving kids, a richer local will just pay 50 knowing that he could go for 40 and than the even richer foreigner comes along and demands to get the poor people prize. I can see how shopkeepers can go sour over that :D

So my reasoning by now is:
-don't pay 10x the local prizes of course
-haggle a bit around (if it's the place to do so)
-haggle hard if you have the time and really want to make a bargain
-but always keep it lighthearted and fun: don't make it an ego thing and don't get to the point where the shopkeeper thinks you're a cheap piece of shit that earns more a day than he does in a month doing 16 hours a day and than flies around the world to come to his shop and demand charity

Phew long comment.. :D
One last thing: I found the young girls working in the shops like at Silk Street can often times bribes with ice cream ;D

I totally agree on how overpaying large sums (like 5-10x the local prize) on a regular basis is bad for other travelers as well as for the honest shopkeepers – as you’re also pointing out in another post.

On the other hand I’ve seen this phenomenon of always wanting to pay lowest price in many other people as well as myself growing to ridiculous heights. One time we were waiting for hours in the middle of nowhere in Laos for a busride and when we got one my companion decided not to take it as the busdriver inisted on 15 Kip instead of 13 or s.th like that. I have similar stories of wandering around Beijing for hours instead of taking a cab. These things can be fun too of course, but as I said sometimes one might want to take the value of ones time into account.

I can absolutely relate to what you’re saying about how a chinese person would have gotten the 30 RMB prize and that would just seem unfair. One realization I had at one point though was that “Yes they might get it for 30 – yet if that chinese person could afford it maybe they would pay 50 too – Prize is not an absolute but a status thing.”
I’m not sure if this holds true for China but at least in Thailand if people have the money they will not negotiate too hard and gladly pay a little more than the people that can’t afford too. Kinda like tipping. Whereas in Europe you buy the bigger and more expensive toy to show your status – over there you might as well buy the same as everybody else but pay/tip generously as everybody will know that YOU KNOW that the prize could be lower. Of course being a foreigner that’s difficult as they don’t expect you to know about reasonable prizes at all.
But say a poor local will get the item for 30 after telling the shopkeeper about his 7 starving kids, a richer local will just pay 50 knowing that he could go for 40 and than the even richer foreigner comes along and demands to get the poor people prize. I can see how shopkeepers can go sour over that :D

So my reasoning by now is:
-don’t pay 10x the local prizes of course
-haggle a bit around (if it’s the place to do so)
-haggle hard if you have the time and really want to make a bargain
-but always keep it lighthearted and fun: don’t make it an ego thing and don’t get to the point where the shopkeeper thinks you’re a cheap piece of shit that earns more a day than he does in a month doing 16 hours a day and than flies around the world to come to his shop and demand charity

Phew long comment.. :D
One last thing: I found the young girls working in the shops like at Silk Street can often times bribed with ice cream ;D

Hilarious. Can't get the picture of you theatrically putting that tie in your bag out of my head.

For some reason, you give her a big wink at the end. ;)